Good evening from the Health Education Campus of Case Western Reserve University and the Cleveland Clinic. I’m Chris Wallace of Fox News and I welcome you to the first of the 2020 Presidential Debates between President Donald J. Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden. This debate is sponsored by the Commission on Presidential debates. The Commission has designed the format, six roughly 15 minute segments with two minute answers from each candidate to the first question, then open discussion for the rest of each segment. Both campaigns have agreed to these rules. For the record, I decided the topics and the questions in each topic. I can assure you none of the questions has been shared with the Commission or the two candidates.
This debate is being conducted under health and safety protocols designed by the Cleveland Clinic, which is serving as the Health Security advisor to the Commission for all four debates. As a precaution, both campaigns have agreed the candidates will not shake hands at the beginning of tonight’s debate. The audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent. No cheers, no boos, or other interruptions so we, and more importantly you, can focus on what the candidates have to say. No noise except right now, as we welcome the Republican nominee, President Trump, and the Democratic nominee Vice President Biden.
Gentlemen, a lot of people been waiting for this night, so let’s get going. Our first subject is the Supreme Court. President Trump, you nominated Amy Coney Barrett over the weekend to succeed the late Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the Court. You say the Constitution is clear about your obligation and the Senate’s to consider a nominee to the Court. Vice President Biden, you say that this is an effort by the President and Republicans to jam through on an appointment in what you call an abuse of power. My first question to both of you tonight, why are you right in the argument you make and your opponent wrong? And where do you think a Justice Barrett would take the court? President Trump, in this first segment, you go first. Two minutes.
President Trump, thank you. Same question to you, Vice President Biden. You have two minutes.
Gentlemen, we’re now into open discussion.
Open discussion, yes, I agree. Go ahead, Vice President.
All right, gentlemen, Mr. President.
Mr. President.
Mr. President, as the moderator, we are going to talk about COVID in the next segment. But go ahead.
Well, all right. All right. Let’s talk. We’ve got a lot to unpack here, gentlemen. We’ve got a lot of time. On healthcare, and then we’ll come back to Roe V. Wade.
Mr. President, the Supreme Court will hear a case a week after the election in which the Trump Administration, along with 18 state Attorney Generals are seeking to overturn Obamacare, to end Obamacare.
You have spent the last week-
If I may ask my question, sir.
Over the last four years, you have promised to repeal and replace Obamacare, but you have never in these four years come up with a plan, a comprehensive plan, to replace Obamacare.
when I finish I’m going to give an opportunity-
That’s not a comprehensive place.
I didn’t ask, sir.
You’re debating him not me. Let me ask my question.
Mr. President.
Mr. President, I’m the moderator of this debate and I would like you to let me ask my question and then you can answer.
You, in the course of these four years, have never come up with a comprehensive plan to replace Obamacare, and just this last Thursday you signed a largely symbolic Executive Order to protect people with pre-existing conditions five days before this debate. So my question, sir, is what is the Trump healthcare plan?
What about pre-existing conditions?
Okay, like I say, this is open discussion.
Sir, you’ll be happy. I’m about to pick up on one of your points to ask the Vice President, which is, he points out that you would like to add a public option to Obamacare.
And the argument that he makes and other Republicans make is that that is going to end private insurance.
If I start asking the question.
And it will end private insurance and create a government takeover of health.
Mr. President, can you let him finish, sir?
Please let him speak, Mr. President.
Mr. President.
Gentlemen, you realize if you’re both speaking at the same time. Let the President. Go ahead, sir.
I understand that, sir. But I have to give you roughly equal time.
Please let the Vice President talk, sir.
Please.
All right, I have one final question for you.
Mr. Vice President, if Senate Republicans, we were talking originally about the Supreme Court here, if Senate Republicans go ahead and confirm Justice Barrett there has been talk about ending the filibuster or even packing the court, adding to the nine justices there. You call this a distraction by the President. But, in fact, it wasn’t brought up by the President. It was brought up by some of your Democratic colleagues in the Congress. So my question to you is, you have refused in the past to talk about it, are you willing to tell the American tonight whether or not you will support either ending the filibuster or packing the court?
Gentlemen, I think we’ve ended this-
We have ended the segment. We’re going to move on to the second segment.
All right, the second subject is COVID-19, which is an awfully serious subject. So let’s try to be serious about it. We have had more than seven million cases of coronavirus in the United States and more than 200,000 people have died. Even after we produce a vaccine, experts say that it could be months or even years before we come back to anything approaching normal. My question for both of you is, based on what you have said and done so far, and what you have said you would do starting in 2021, why should the American people trust you more than your opponent to deal with this public health crisis going forward? In this case, the question goes to you first, sir. Two minutes, uninterrupted.
Sir, it’s his two minutes.
Wait, wait. You have two minutes, sir.
Sir, it’s his two minutes.
Sir, you made a point. Let him answer it.
Okay, gentlemen, gentlemen. Let me move on to questions about the future because you both have touched on two of the questions I’m going to ask. Focusing on the future first, President Trump, you have repeatedly either contradicted or been at odds with some of your governments own top scientists. The week before last, the Head of the Centers for Disease Control, Dr. Redfield said it would be summer before the vaccine would become generally available to the public. You said that he was confused and mistaken. Those were your two words. But Dr. Slaoui, the head of your Operation Warp Speed, has said exactly the same thing. Are they both wrong?
So you’re suggesting that the head of your Operation Warp Speed, Dr. Slaoui-
He talked about the summer, sir, before it’s generally available, just like Dr. Redfield.
I’m talking about when it’s generally available, not-
Mr. Vice President, I want to pick up-
I want to pick up on this question though. You say the public can trust the scientists, but they can’t trust President Trump. In fact, you said that again tonight. Your running mate, Senator Harris, goes further, saying that public health experts quote, “Will be muzzled, will be suppressed.” Given the fact that polls already show that people are concerned about the vaccine and are reluctant to take it, are you and your running mate, Senator Harris, contributing to that fear?
But you’re saying you can’t-
Or Senator Harris is saying you can’t trust the scientist.
She said that public health experts quote, “Will be muzzled, will be suppressed.”
Let him finish.
Mr. President?
We’ll get to the economy in the next segment, sir.
Okay. When it comes to how the virus has been handled so far, the two of you have taken very different approaches, and this is going to affect how the virus is handled going forward by whichever of you ends up becoming the next president. I want to quickly go through several of those. Reopenings. Vice President Biden, you have been much more reluctant than President Trump about reopening the economy and schools. Why, sir?
What about this question of reopenings and the fact-
All right. I want to move onto another-
I want to move onto another subject.
I want to move-
Gentlemen, I want to move onto another subject.
President Trump, you have begun to increasingly question the effectiveness of masks as a disease preventer. And in fact, recently you have cited the issue of waiters touching their masks and touching plates. Are you questioning the efficacy of masks?
Okay. Let me ask-
Vice President Biden, go ahead, sir.
But I was asking you, sir, about masks.
Okay. I want to ask you-
I want to ask you, we’ve got a little than a minute left in this segment.
I want to ask-
I want to ask you both about one last subject because your different approaches has even affected the way that you have campaigned. President Trump, you’re holding large rallies with crowds packed together, thousands of people.
Outside. Yes, sir. Agreed. Vice President Biden, you are holding much smaller events with-
… people with masks.
All right. In any case, why you holding the big rallies? Why you not? You go first, sir.
But are not worried about us spreading disease?
Are you not worried about the disease issues, sir?
All right. Do you want to just quickly finish up? Because I want to move on to our next-
Gentlemen, can we move on to the-
Gentlemen, can we move on to the economy?
The economy is, I think it’s fair to say, recovering faster than expected from the shutdown-
… in the second quarter. The unemployment rate fell to 8.4% last month. The Federal Reserve says the hit to growth, which is going to be there, is not going to be nearly as big as they had expected. President Trump, you say we are in a V-shaped recovery. Vice President Biden, you say it’s more of a K-shape. What difference does that mean to the American people in terms of the economy? President Trump, in this segment you go first.
All right. Your two minutes, sir. We’re now moved to you. As I said, posing the question, the president says it’s a V-shape recovery, you say it’s a K-shaped recovery. What’s the difference?
Sir, wait. No. Sir-
Yeah, I understand. You’ve agreed to the two minutes, so please let him have it.
All right. Your time is up, sir. We are going to get to-
Well, you both had two minutes, sir.
And so did you.
All right. Let’s-
Gentlemen, we’re going to get to your economic plans going forward in a moment, but first, Mr. President, as you well know, there’s a new report that in 2016, the year you were elected president, and 2017, your first year as president, that you paid $750 a year in federal income tax each of those years. I know that you pay a lot of other taxes, but I’m asking you this specific question. Is it true that you paid $750 in federal income taxes each of those two years?
Sir, I’m asking you a specific question, which is-
I understand all of that.
I understand all of that-
No, Mr. President, I’m asking you a question. Will you tell us how much you paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017?
You paid millions of dollars in-
So not 750?
Vice President Biden, you want to respond?
Okay. Gentlemen?
Mr. President, we’re talking about the economy. I’d like to ask you about your plans going forward because Mr. Vice President, your economic plan-
… if you were to be elected president focuses a lot on big government, big taxes, big spending. I want to focus first on the taxes. You propose more than $4 trillion over a decade in new taxes on individuals making more than $400,000 a year.
… on individuals making more than $400,000 a year and on corporations. President Trump says that that kind of an increase in taxes is going to hurt the economy as it’s just coming out of a recession.
But respectfully, sir, I’m talking about taxes, not spending.
Mr. President-
Mr. President, let me pick up on that. You would continue your free market approach, lower taxes, more deregulation, correct?
But let me-
You talk about the economy booming. It turns out that in Obama’s final three years as president more jobs were created, a million and a half more jobs, than in the first three years of your presidency.
Mr. Vice President.
Wait, wait, is it fair to say he blew it when, in fact-
… when there was record low unemployment before COVID.
All right, let him-
Mr. Vice President, go ahead.
Sir, you’ve asked him a question, let him answer it.
Mr. President-
Mr. President, please. You’ve asked a question- [crosstalk 00:22:41]
Mr. President.
Mr. President, it’s an open discussion. Please- [crosstalk 00:22:56]
Well, you have raised an issue, let the Vice President answer.
Mr. President-
Mr. President, let him answer. [crosstalk 00:23:13].
Mr. President, please stop.
Go ahead, I’m listening to you.
No, no. Go ahead, sir.
Go ahead. You get the- [crosstalk 00:23:57] Wait a minute. You get the final word, Mr.-
No, no- [crosstalk 00:06:20].
Mr. President-
That’s the end of the segment. We’re moving on.
Vice President-
No.
The answer to the question is no.
Sir-
Stop. [crosstalk 00:25:02] Gentlemen, I hate to raise my voice, but I- [crosstalk 00:25:05] Why should I be different than the two of you? So here’s the deal.
We have six segments. We have ended that segment. We’re going to go to the next segment. In that segment, you each are going to have two uninterrupted moments. In those two interrupted minutes, Mr. President, you can say anything you want. I’m going to ask a question about race, but if you want to answer about something else, go ahead. But I think that the country would be better served, if we allowed both people to speak with fewer interruptions. I’m appealing to you, sir, to do that.
Well, frankly, you’ve been doing more interrupting than he has.
Well, sir, less than-
No, less than you have. Let’s please continue on. The issue of rice. Vice-President Biden, you say that President Trump’s response to the violence in Charlottesville three years ago, when he talked about very fine people on both sides, was what directly led you to launch this run for president.
President Trump, you have often said that you believe you will have done more for Black Americans than any president with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln.
My question for the two of you, is why should voters trust you rather than your opponent to deal with the race issues facing this country over the next four years? Vice President Biden, you go first.
It is his-
… minute sir.
President Trump, you have two minutes. Why should Americans trust you over your opponent to deal race issues?
No, no, sir. It’s his two minutes.
All right. I want to return to the question of race. Vice President Biden, after the grand jury in the Breonna Taylor case decided not to charge any of the police with homicide, you said it raises the question, “Whether justice could be equally applied in America.” Do you believe that there is a separate but unequal system of justice for Blacks in this country?
All right, Mr.-
President Trump-
President Trump, I’d like to continue with the issue of race. I promise we’re going to get to the issue of law and order in a moment.
This month, your administration directed federal agencies to end racial sensitivity training that addresses white privilege or critical race theory. Why did you decide to do that, to end racial sensitivity training? And do you believe that there is systemic racism in this country, sir?
What is radical about racial sensitivity training?
Vice President Biden.
Let him finish.
Vice President… I mean, President Trump, sir.
You asked a question, let him finish. [crosstalk 00:35:18] Let him answer.
All right, we’re done- [crosstalk 00:35:35] Mr. President, you’re going to be very happy because we’re now going to talk about law and order.
That’s exactly my question. There has been a dramatic increase in homicides in America this summer particularly, and you often blame that on democratic mayors and democratic governors. But in fact, there have been equivalent spikes in Republican led cities, like Tulsa and Fort Worth. So the question is, is this really a…
It’s like Tulsa and Fort worth. So the question is, is this really a party issue?
Gentlemen wait a minute.
I do want to talk about this issue of law and order though. And in the joint recommendation that came from the Biden-Bernie Sanders task force, you talked about quote re-imagining policing. First of all, what does re-imagining policing mean and do you support? If I might finish the question, what does re-imagining policing mean and do you support the Black Lives Matter call for community control of policing?
Now, gentleman. I think I’m going to tell I’m going to take back the bottom line.
And I want to get to another subject, which is the issue of protests in many cities that have turned violent in Portland, Oregon, especially we had more than a 100 straight days of protests, which I think you would agree, you talk about peaceful protests. Many of those turned into riots. Mr. Vice-president you say that people who commit crimes should be held accountable. The question I have though is as the democratic nominee, and earlier tonight, you said that you are the Democratic Party right now, have you ever called the Democratic Mayor of Portland or the Democratic Governor of Oregon and said, “Hey, you got to stop this, bring in the National Guard, do whatever it takes, but you’d stop the days and months of violence in Portland.”
But you’ve never called for the people…
Excuse me, sir. You had never called for the leaders in Portland and in Oregon to call and bring in the National Guard and knock off a 100 days of riots.
Go ahead sir.
Okay. And to end this, button up this segment I’m going to give you a minute to answer, sir. You have repeatedly criticized…
You have repeatedly…
You’ve been talking back and forth. I’m asking you.
You know sir if you want to switch seats we could very quickly can do that.
You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left wing extremist groups. But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia group and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we’ve seen in Portland.
Are you prepared specifically to do it.
But what are you saying?
Well, do it, sir.
White supremacist and right-wing militia.
We’re done, sir. Moving onto the next… [crosstalk 00:42:46]
All right, gentlemen we’re now moving onto the Trump-Biden record.
I’m going to ask a question. When the president seeks a second term, it is generally a referendum on his record but vice president Biden, you’d like to quote one of your dad’s sayings, which is don’t compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. And in this case sir you are the alternative. Looking at both of your records, I’m going to ask each of you. Why should voters elect you president over your opponent in this segment, President Trump you’ll go first, two minutes.
Looking at both of your records. Why should voters elect you President as opposed to president Trump, you have two minutes uninterrupted.
Wait a minute. Mr. President, your campaign agreed to both sides would get two minute answers, uninterrupted. Well, you’re a side agreed to it and why don’t you observe what your campaign agreed to as a ground rule. Okay, sir?
No, that was a rhetorical question.
Yes. You may have, go ahead.
We’ve already been through this. I think the American people would rather hear about more substantial subjects. Well, as the moderator, sir, I’m going to make a judgment call here.
I’d like to talk about climate change.
Okay. The forest fires in the West are raging now. They have burned millions of acres. They have displaced hundreds of thousands of people. When state officials there blamed the fires on climate change. Mr. President, you said, I don’t think the science knows. Over your four years, you have pulled the US out of the Paris Climate Accord. You have rolled back a number of Obama Environmental records, what do you believe about the science of climate change and what will you do in the next four years to confront it?
What do you believe about the science of climate change, sir?
You believe that human pollution, gas, greenhouse gas emissions contributes to the global warming of this planet.
But sir if you believe in the science of climate change, why have you rolled back the Obama Clean Power Plan which limited carbon emissions and power plants? Why have you relaxed…?
But in the case of California they have simply ignored that.
All right, Vice president Biden. I’d like you to respond to the president’s climate change record but I also want to ask you about a concern. You propose $2 trillion in green jobs. You talk about new limits, not abolishing, but new limits on fracking. Ending the use of fossil fuels to generate electricity by 2035 and zero none admission of greenhouse gases by 2050. The president says a lot of these things would tank the economy and cost millions of jobs.
What about the argument that President Trump basically says, that you have to balance environmental interests and economic interests? And he’s drawn his line.
Let him go for a minute, and then you can go.
All right. Let me [crosstalk 00:02:12]. Wait a minute, sir. I actually have studied your plan, and it includes upgrading 4 million buildings, weatherizing 2 million homes over four years, building one and a half million energy efficient homes. So the question becomes, the president is saying, I think some people who support the president would say, that sounds like it’s going to cost a lot of money and hurt the economy.
Let him finish, sir.
All right, gentlemen-
Gentlemen-
Okay. [crosstalk 00:58:24] Mr. Vice President-
Please, sir. [crosstalk 00:58:33] Stop.
Stop. Go ahead-
Mr. Vice President answered his final question.
I’m having a little trouble myself, but…
And about the economy and about this question of what it’s going to cost.
The Green New Deal and the idea of what your environmental changes will do-
So, do you support the Green New Deal?
Do you support the-
Okay.
All right, gentlemen, final segment, election integrity. As we meet tonight, millions of Americans are receiving mail-in ballots or going to vote early. How confident should we be that this will be a fair election, and what are you prepared to do over the next five plus weeks? Because it will not only be to election day, but also counting some mail-in ballots after election day. What are you prepared to do to reassure the American people that the next president will be the legitimate winner of this election. In this final segment, Mr. Vice President, you go first.
Mr. President, two minutes.
Sir.
Two minutes is two minutes.
President Trump-
You’re going to be able to continue. You have been charging for months that mail-in balloting is going to be a disaster. You say it’s rigged [crosstalk 00:01:04:11], that it’s going to lead to fraud. But in 2018, in the last midterm election, 31 million people voted mail-in voting. That was more than a quarter of all the voters that year, cast their ballots by mail. Now that millions of mail-in ballots have gone out, what are you going to do about it? And are you counting on the Supreme Court, including a Justice Barrett, to settle any dispute?
But what are you going to do about it-
There are millions of ballots going out right now. What are you going to do-
No. No. I know your complaint [crosstalk 01:05:05]. I’m asking you about the fact that millions of people have received-
No. But what I’m saying is [crosstalk 01:05:11], what are you going to do about the fact that millions of people-
Okay. Vice President Biden, in fact, go ahead, sir-
I want to continue with you on this [crosstalk 01:06:06] Vice President Biden-
No. Excuse me. Vice President Biden, the biggest problem, in fact, over the years with mail-in voting has not been fraud, historically. It has been that sizable numbers, sometimes hundreds of thousands of ballots are thrown out because they have not been properly filled out, or there is some other irregularity, or they missed [crosstalk 01:06:28] the deadline. So the question I have is, are you concerned that the Supreme Court with a Justice Barrett will settle any dispute?
All right.
No. No. No. I have a final [crosstalk 00:13:12]. Gentlemen, I have a final question [crosstalk 01:07:14]-
We can keep talking. In eight states, [crosstalk 01:07:27] election workers are prohibited, currently by law, eight states, from even beginning to process ballots, even take them out of the envelopes and flatten them until election day. That means that it’s likely, because there’s going to be a huge increase in mail-in balloting, that we are not going to know on election night who the winner is, that it could be days. It could be weeks-
… until we find out who the new president is. First for you, sir. Finally, for the vice president, and I hope neither of you will interrupt the other. Will you urge your supporters to stay calm during this extended period, not to engage in any civil unrest? And will you pledge tonight that you will not declare victory until the election has been independently certified? President Trump, you go first-
You’re urging them what?
What does that mean, not go along-
… to take to the streets?
And what would you do about that?
Vice President Biden-
Vice President Biden, final question for you. Will you urge your supporters to stay calm while the vote is counted? And will you pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified?
I asked you. You had an opportunity to respond [crosstalk 01:10:13]. Go ahead [crosstalk 01:10:14]. Vice President Biden, go ahead.
Gentlemen, just say that’s the end of it [crosstalk 01:10:45]. This is the end of this debate-
We’re going to leave it there-
… to be continued in more debates as we go on. President Trump, Vice President Biden, it’s been an interesting hour and a half. I want to thank you both for participating in the first of three debates that you have agreed to engage in. We want to thank Case Western Reserve University and the Cleveland Clinic for hosting this event. The next debate, sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates, will be one week from tomorrow, October 7th, at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. The two vice presidential nominees, Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris will debate at 9:00 PM Eastern that night. We hope you watch. Until then, thank you, and good night. Thank you.